Thursday, April 12, 2007

For those Thursday 13 folks...

I was looking at Thursday 13 posts and came across this one. This is from a 61 year old man on "what men want from women". It was pretty funny, and I thought I would just pass it along.

Disclaimer: In no way do the opinions of this blogger reflect the opinions of oumike23, therefore no punishment should be handed to oumike23. Everything on this post below this line is strictly from this man's page:

http://atavist.blogspot.com/2007/03/thirteen-things-man-wants-from-woman.html

So, without further ado, here is my own list. It is culled from the marriages and relationships that have taken up the adult life of a 61 year old man, plus distillations of conversations I have had with numerous other men on the topic over the years. Also, I am a people watcher. I notice things. In my list, there are both 'do's' and 'don'ts.' In my personal experience, the presence of things that are real irritants is sometimes harder to take than the absence of things that please.

The Atavist's Thirteen Things that men want from women:

1. Respect us: Our opinions and actions count, even if we don’t think quite like you do, and even if we act or react differently than you.

2. Don’t criticize us: Especially, don’t use terms like “you always” or “you never” in a negative way.

3. Don’t dredge up the past: What we said on May 13, 1987 or did on November 22, 1993, is irrelevant today. It’s history. We’re still together aren’t we? Doesn’t that mean that whatever it was that upset you has been forgiven and forgotten?


4. If we are grappling with a personal or work-related issue, please understand that not everything needs to be analyzed to death. If we don’t want to talk about something, leave us alone. We handle our problems more privately than women. If you offer us unsolicited advice, it puts us in a very awkward position of being seen as ignoring or undervaluing your opinion if we choose to address the problem our way. Discussions of things that affect both of us or our children directly are, of course, another matter.


5. Don’t push. Say it once, that’s enough. Harping on anything on your gripe list will guarantee pretty much the opposite of what you would like. You might think that “You never bring me flowers,” is a good way to get us to correct our oversight. Instead, to men, that observation of yours is tantamount to an order to get you some flowers, or else. We don’t follow orders well.

6. Lose the sarcasm. Curb that acid tongue of yours. Do you seriously think that skewering everyone and everything in your path is going to result in harmonious relationships, especially with your mate?

7. Don’t embarrass us in public. If you have a problem with something we do or say, wait until we get home to discuss it, and then bring it up in as neutral a way as possible. Don't raise your voice, don't cry, don't walk around with that 'look' on your face. It's embarrassing to us and should be embarrassing to you too.

8. Let's have a united front in dealing with children. They are our kids too. We are just as likely to be correct as you are in how we handle our kids. Support and enforce our decisions. We'll do the same for you.

9. Women appear to have some sort of secret rule book about what they expect of a mate or lover. If you’re going to use the rule book, you have to give us a copy. Men often have no clue why their spouse is upset about something. If men are to be judged like this, at least let us know what is expected of us. If it is reasonable, we will be happy to comply. If it is unreasonable, at least we will be able to tell you so, and relieve you of any unrealistic expectation that we might ever act the way you wish us to.

10. Don’t tell us how to drive or how to get to where we’re going. We knew how to start the car, get out of the driveway, drive across town and across the country long before we ever met you. Why do we suddenly need detailed instructions?

11. Many of our hobbies, interests, dreams and aspirations are different from yours. So what? We go with you to craft shows and to see chick flics. If it pleases us to have you accompany us to a monster truck rally or an action movie, put on your coat, smile sweetly, and come with us. Be happy that we want to spend time with you.

12. Recognize that we are very visual beings. We like to look. Just because we admire a nice set of boobs or a perfect derriere on another woman doesn't mean that we don't love you. We're with you, aren't we? Don't make an issue of something trivial. Don't point out to us that her breasts are probably plastic and that she is probably as stupid as a stump. It demeans you much more than the woman you are insulting. In return, we will promise to be circumspect and not to embarrass you by being overtly lecherous.

13. Recognize that we are also very physical beings. We need lots and lots of physical attention. We are much more likely to be helpful and co-operative and sympathetic and even-tempered, and to take you to the theatre and buy you flowers and give you the emotional closeness you crave, if we get lots of physical attention, with lots of variety and in a spirit of fun.

There. It's an imperfect list, but all I have time for. And... all my female friends, if you think my list is too harsh and one-sided, please replay in your mind the conversations you have had with your best friend, or sister or mother, about your husband or boyfriend. Still think my comments are harsh? Chances are you used some rather strong language in those conversations and called the offending male some really nasty names. If you are a female who truly and honestly doesn't recognize herself in even a few of the points above, you are one in a million. Your mate should bow down before you and treat you like a queen, or at least run off to the flower store to get you some daisies or something. Tell him I said so.

By the way, I fully expect the women who visit here to be as honest about what they expect from men as I have been about what men expect from women. After all, that's my real name up there on my blog sidebar and I haven't pulled any punches, so tell us what you really think! My wife and I have discussed the male/female dynamic many times and even she doesn't agree with me all of the time. Also, she knows my blog address and visits regularly, so I have to be real careful to get it right.

A reader once commented in response to a post of mine that I sounded bitter. Far from it. I see humour in everything. I treat everything in life as an adventure and try to learn from it. Bad things happen to people sometimes, including me. But, and this is important to remember, unless I specifically say that I experienced something, I might be writing about the travails of a friend or acquaintance. I have seen many examples of truly dreadful behaviour of one sex to the other. Men are as apt to be jerks as are women, just in different ways.The rotten tomatoes are in the big barrel over there. Before you start lobbing them at me, I think I'll go hide until this blows over.

3 comments:

ann said...

Oh, here we go again! First of all, I must say the list is certainly a list which a man would write! Now, myself as a woman, would like to lovingly out just a few responses to your(man's) list!
#1 - I would most certainly agree that your opinions count and, if asked for, will probably be considered, but inevitably - the best (aka woman's) opinion is most often the better!
#2 - It would be so great not to have to remind you that whatever it is I am telling you - that "you always" or "you never", but the mere fact that I do have to add these phrases into our conversation simply means that we have addressed this same issue and you gave your "respected" opinion (see #1) and still the situation at hand didn't change!
#3 - Again - see #2 - same thing applies!
#4 - Oh my, so many things could be accomplished if we (women) were allowed to settle those little "issues" that come up! We are problem solvers - and we, as wives, normally work for free!
#5 - This would help with some clarification! If you could suggest a time period set aside after an issue is addressed and allow the situation to be addressed again (because it was not resolved when first addressed), and that way we (again, women) would know how long we should wait before addressing that issue with our husband again OR if we should go ahead and contract outside help alleviating the need to address the same subject more than once!
#6 - This one I will give you! There may be times - not necessarily unwarranted - that we may come across a little sarcastically!
#7 - This one is a good suggestion but husbands don't have a very long attention span, so it's hard to drop a subject and be able to pick it up hours later! It has to be nipped quickly while the memory is fresh!
#8 - I so totally agree with you - parents should share in the growth, learning and the discpline of the children. I also agree that because men have that right, they should also be able to share the morning sickness, weight gain, exhaustion and labor!
#9 - Obviously you didn't know that there have been many books written about the way a husband should treat his wife, you can lead a man to a book, but you can't make him read! (Get it, kind of like "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.)
#10 - Yes, you did know how to get the car started and get it going toward a destination - but you (men) are also known to read instructions after a task has been incorrectly done!
#11 - Are you kidding me?! Of course, we would love to spend more time with our husbands! Time at the kitchen sink, time at the kitchen stove, time behind a vacuum cleaner, time at the washer and dryer, etc.!
#12 - True, looking elsewhere does not mean that you don't love us - but how can everyone else who sees you drooling know that you love the woman you're with above all others! I think a blinder and leash might be a better idea!
#13 - I completely understand your point! We(women) are also physical! We constantly physically lift groceries, carry the kids, push the broom, stoop with the dustpan, push a mop, referee arguments, plan and prepare the meals. Trust me, we know what physical means!

I'm so glad you wanted me to be honest! And you know my real name - I am your mother-in-law, after all!
Really this was fun - I enjoy exchanging ideas (funny or otherwise) with you! I love you,
Mom (annb)

Okie Food Traveler said...

I knew out of everyone, you would really get worked up on this on. I was just seeing if I could get a rise up out of you. haha! The whole time I read this, I laughed. It was funny coming out of a 61 year old man. For some reason, the entire time I envisioned Everybody Loves Raymond's dad doing this list.

The Atavist said...

Michael: I'm that 61-year-old relic (The Atavist) who wrote the Thursday 13 list that you quoted and linked to in this post. I found your blog by tracing back a link from yours to mine displayed in a stats counter.

I love discourse. The world of ideas is a world with which I am very familiar, having participated in many formal and informal groups and discussions on religion, philosophy, political philosophy, politics, etc. I state this only because you seem to have the notion that someone of my age can no longer think a coherent thought. Or, perhaps you have the idea that someone my age should no longer think of such things as physical pleasure, being 'over the hill' or past my prime. You appear to be somewhat younger than I, based on the picture posted on your blog, so the discovery that a man of sixty-one can still be interested in sex and be sexually active might be a surprise to you. When you are my age, you will (if you remain healthy) discover that your libido will still be alive and well while your wife's may have waned to the point of being non-existent. I am very lucky not to have that problem but I know that it is a very common complaint among men from their forties on.

The point I tried to make in my list is that it is based on my experiences, either direct or anecdotal. I don't claim that this represents a large enough statistical universe to be able to project population-wide generalizations, but I would be surprised if my findings are very far off the mark.

I was raised in a staunchly Christian home and learned from the example of my parents that there were certain behaviours between spouses that were always inappropriate: nagging, sarcasm, taunting, ridicule, derision, etc., and that they were inappropriate regardless of which partner resorted to them.

Your mother-in-law's comments, at first read, appeared to have just a touch of misandry in them, a surprise to me since she, on her own blog, sings the praises of her husband. On second read, I think that she was responding with a bit of humour, and that at most there might be some dichotomy between her personal inclination to be a strong and independent person with her desire as a Christian to conform at least superficially to the Proverbs 31 ideal. She is not alone. Many Christian women face that challenge. I enjoyed her point of view nevertheless.

The main point that I was trying to make is that male/female relationships, on average, are less than perfect, and that if a relationship transcends the norm it is (pardon the expression) miraculous.

I found your reference to Ray's TV dad interesting. He is a bit of a dunce, has some rather archaic points of view, and may have myriad other faults of which I am not aware as I have only watched the show a couple of times. The one thing is that he is the only male on the show who hasn't been completely emasculated. He plays along when it suits him but digs in his heels when he disagrees strongly enough. The show is typical of the pap that serves as family entertainment these days: men = clumsy, lazy and stupid; women = smart, focused and effective. That is certainly a message that, while politically correct, is not terribly accurate. Is that typical in your home? I suspect not. It's not typical in my home either. It is as silly a premise as having a home in which the roles and characteristics might be reversed.

I am always available, even eager, for intelligent discourse on any topic. Thanks for dropping in on my blog.

You might be interested in reading my defense of Christians and Christianity, here: http://www.pedde.net/Zach12.html in one of a series of 'Dear Zachary' letters to my young son.